[applause] >> good morning. everybody can hear me okay? i don't have to get too close? i appreciate you coming out today it is an unusual weather day but i have been here when it is worse.

i was pleased to be the moderator because paul whitaker and jean are writing their interesting books but they are also friends of mine and i just like to be on stage with them so without further a do me introduce paul whitaker. working as a freelance writer and editor over many years on projects and organizations of government agency working at the washington post in coaster rica and 44 street and environment litigation projects when her sons were two and six she went to do freelance work and is doing just fine and a native of new

london connecticut i will ever explain how she got interested in the civil war. [applause] >> you heard from the introduction like the civil war in my background i have always been interested in h local history i moved to alexandria in the 80s the local history is usually civil war centric so i had to do some work on the union hospitals and i come across the diary of a woman who visited patients and talked about her experience and her named was named julia wilbur she was physically unknown and really do great things and most importantly to read the

diary of what she did originally from rochester and in 1860 do with the family tragedy she was in a depressed state and was asked to come down here in the midst of the war and she seized the opportunity so then during the civil war she was working for the rights of african-americans slavery coming to alexandria and to occupy in the beginning of the war that could come from slavery into the area and remain free and that was her struggle for purpose. she then became the first governmentof workers working for suffrage with a quiet background

leading a pretty momentous life . >> thank you very much eugene grew up in long island in the suburbs since january 2004 and a freelance writer working two decades for the washington post as a reporter and editor with more than 50 bylines and a contributing editor u.s. news and world report also editor since 2009 with his love of history that people love this and work and travel with those dynamic changes of washington d.c. with justice

third marshal marshall -- thurgood marshall and then from georgia but the clincher is he interviewed the beatles inin philadelphia in 1966. _spee17 i am delighted delighted to share the stage with my friends and one thing you will learn about the peopleen that he interviewed there all well-known people but the people that i write about in the fight for freedomwn were not well known and undoubtedly you heard of john brown i would wager that few of you have heard of the

anderson lewis or john anthony copeland these were the men that john led on harpers ferry in 1859. and i read about these men that were forgotten and also about the world to which theyy were born and raised with their families and their lives and the aftermath of their descendents and their legacies which is a part of our country todayue so i start out on this journey with a small story from theco washington post when it was dedicated to edison in a cemetery near fedex field it

was buried inside the metrose section but it made a big impact on me but i left the post in 2004 and wrote a much longer article and doing my research i said is so little written about these and actually he was the sole survivor of the raid and was treated dismissively and said so little is known is the other is racism he said it is a challenge but i took the story but i had gone to canada

researching the passage in 1860 and there was a newspaper called provincial freeman published by an émigre from the west bank so i went there to see if there was more that she wrote heart wrenching letters that copeland had sent back before he was executed and i thought there is a story so we have to look at this from all sides. it is an important story from the past tofom. the present i dedicated a lot of my career to writing about those figures and those stories have not

been told and to find out this event which seems ancient in history is so much with us today so i hope this shows the contribution to telling that story and to bring it down to the present day. >> thank you. >> but then there date with

destiny was related to the civil war leading to this for so to have many much independence she was part of our large family and the of ten to a group be called in when people were sickwh growing up near rochester, new york because they did have the social reform movement at the time and then to become involved and then tori attend a lecture or a meeting to be exposed to these ideas. a group called the rochester ladies slavery society like

other groups from the north were sending people down south to see what they could do to assist faster she wanted to come and she came on her own at 47 years old with no job description and not sure what she was going to do just some letters of introduction and just figured it out. >> you mention her independence can you tell us more about that? i find that aspect of her character pretty powerful. how did she gave that independence? how does a call on her to sacrifice for them? >> she wasn't married that was significant but her mother passed away while giving birth she had a large family she had so many younger siblings to take care of so she did that during her 20s looking back

on her life that way chart her course because at the age to be married but otherwise married women do not have that autonomy and hadn't others recently been married? but then her father remarried and she didn't have a great relationship. >> not everybody belonged she writes in her diary about some of the so in a way her coming down here was as much as her own benefit as those that she came to help. >> one of the people that is a key figure in both of the experiences is i wonder can we use that transition from

frederick douglass or john brow brown? did thisla come together? they knew each other he tried to recruit douglas to his in ontario when he adopted the racial constitution for the republic he helped to c establish in the appellation mountains in 1858 douglas was living in rochester and he hosted a man named green who was an escaped slave from the charleston area. frankly how he came to rochester i don't know but he stayed with the douglas family for two weeks and there he met brown and learned about his plan when he recruited them to

go with them he very much wanted douglas, a national figure to help the effort to convince douglas to come down to pennsylvania august of 59 to be with them and douglas mom -- douglas brought with him green they had a conversation that lasted the entire weekend douglas was very weary of the wholee enterprise and told braun -- brown he was walking into a trap and he did not want to participate. as they were about too leave he turned to green to say now it's up to you what it do you want to do? is that i believe i will go with him and he did. he went toto harpers ferry and was captured subsequently tried and convicted and

executed december 16, 1859 then there were some papers that were found in the kennedy farmhouse which was the state -- the staging house duplicate douglas of the governor of virginia said marshall went up to rochester to bring him back as a fugitiveba and douglas went to england for a while to escape capture so there was that connection is one of the five men that i write about. >> what about the other four? obviously julia has a moral purpose what abouts the others? >> that is a great question. four out of five were persons of color and we have such a nuanced history and talk in

terms of black and white but they all came from a racially mixed background will refer to them as african-americans and some title but actually born a slave his father was a white man in virginia his mother was waivedom that they had several children he did not own his children or his wife they belong to another slave owner who came at a time to free them saw the other slave owners consent actually the ohio supreme court decision that said once you are on the shores you are free so that is how he knewre he became free and then it was the underground railroad then he established a

union with a woman named harriet and they had seven children and her owner fell onto hard times because life on the plantation was harsh and the hopes that they can liberate his wife and his children to negotiate for their release but he was the first to be killed on the streets harpers ferry it was very gruesome so that is how he came to it. >> as i recall the family did suffer. >> harriet had written three letters to him before the raid

and said dangerfield rescue me you are my hope and i have a chapter called one bright hope two men came and one was at college for a year he otherwise not a relative but by marriage they were just men of principle actually up in north carolina born free and the family immigrated because every person of color of north carolina for them to be in a position. >> if you became free you had to leave within one year? make virginia had these codes if you are free to leave within a year or voluntarilyr. we enslave yourself. and people did that so they wouldn't have to leave the state that didn't attack -- affect any of these but to go

to west chester pennsylvania and his mother was scotch irish needed point as she was well educated and was secretary of the convention 1858 and 36 men participated in that convention he was the only one that went to harpers ferry. depending on your point of view but that is the story. >> it is very fascinating i want to keep going to get further into the drama. i have one particular question so how do they all sacrifice themselves for the project to maintain the union to free the

slaves? who wants to run with that? we didn't touch on that a little bit already. >> two were killed at harpers ferry basically what we alluded to and then also trying to escape asking the river he actually lived eight hours and died the next day he had his wife and a young child. he was character there was one photograph of him tilted to one side and to others were captured and were tried and convicted in charlestown west

virginia. >> is a communicate afterwards what they were feeling or going through? >> but copeland wrote letters from the jails to friends and familyti and his siblings when i saw the letters he had written that they reprinted they are heart wrenching and beautifully written and they will see you in eternity. and then you read these letters and want to cry and those that were convicted with them and those

african-americans were executed first and it was a very sad situation i gave a talk to a group in charlestown trying to renovate one of those family homes even right next to that and i said this is where those two men were hanged and i read his letters it was very touching people said i had no idea. >> the letters are in the book by the way and they are very powerful. >> going back to rochester what was bothering her while she was going through her time? first of all just for history

juliet did go to harpers ferry and she writes about visiting the spot that you talk about including with a working which is interesting she did not frederick douglass and recountsts once she came back she thought it was safe talking about her experiences deciding whether to go or not to grow so i just love how these are unknown people but all these connections between them. >> julia kept a diary so really that was my primary base of how i entered her life. she kept two sets of diaries and she had letters that she

sent to anti- slavery colleagues and she was in alexandria so that i could enter her life to see what she thought. >> can you tell us what she saw? she hadn't had much experience and essentially. >> right when you have these ideas you have and then you get back to a war zone alexandria was occupied so really it was thousands of soldiers andhe hospitals as well as 7000 people coming into the city so she was advocating for better housing and better healthcare and for families and the wages were not always

coming and healthy african-american orphans we didn't know what else to do with them so protesting to the union army that was responsible for affairs leave you heard about harriet jacobs and had escaped avery the two had met in the 1840s when harriet came down early 1863 so they became partners and allies. one ofca the things i liked about this as i was working on it it really was a black woman in a white woman working together as partners and that doesn't happen often in that time. >> i don't know as much about but i understand she

did have more present or awareness of what she was doing?ce >> she had written a narrative about her experience as the life of a slave girl that is available even now and i encourage people to read this. writing articles for the liberator which was the abolitionist newspaper of the day. so she knew it she was getting herself into. >> what about race relations? was there a big change in her awareness of race relations when she started to come down dealing with former slaves? >> up north it was easy to romanticize i am here to help but when she came down and

started to hear people's stories oror experiences or what she could learn from them or help them it was more nuanced experience. >> another question is obviously they are not stories of triumph that what were some of those successes like the fight for freedom that she could claim in the middle of this. >> john anthony copeland was led to the gallows and said if i have to diane would rather die for freedom and of course the raid is cited as the catalyst that led to the civil war also emancipation in 13th amendment and the descendents

that fought in the civil war with u.s. colored troops that were mobilized in 1863 and even the copeland brothers fought in a white regiment and kansas they were designated as white and i think the first battalion the st. louis police department 1876 was a copeland. he was also listed as white is actually on the memorial in washington d.c. on the square. >> very interesting. what about julia? doesul she say she succeeded in any of her goals that she set for herself? >> i think she would say that looking back on her life she saw the ups and downs and what

she had accomplished. >> what were some of the things she did have to struggle? of course they were in control of the situation who was she dealing with in the army or how did that go? >> the villain was a superintendent of contraband a civilian and the way she describes him as classic bullies people below him but with all of these you start to see we know people even like that today. she was a small civilian woman going against the military powers that be and a photograph in the book was from alexandria these man standing on front she would

have to go in front to make our request or file a complaint and or she comes again but she officially protested several things they had done there some wonderful letters in the archives where one person talks about he admires her but she is troublesome and interfering so i guess that is what you have to be to get something done. >> and. >> and these footnotes the reason that i described primarily but at the time the governor received hundreds of letters taking john brown's

apartment post- execution and nobody championed the cause of the two african-americans going to the gallows and i found that quite striking that there was only one request that came from a black group in philadelphia and they were criticized by another black group because they referred to what they did as negative terms so even at that time they were treated poorly which is surprising given the society that their role is downplayed because they took

that action where john brown took that action and it was heroic? >> even the slavery organization everybody was focused on john brown one of those white raters cook was well connected in the next --dash raters was an advocate for his life but other than that nobody was speaking. boyd very sadly after that he execution his parents try to get his remains for a burial and the governor would not permit an african-american to go into the state to retrieve

them. but james madison made an effort to come to virginia and the remains were at the college of virginia in winchester and the faculty supported returning the remains that the students took them and refuse to let them go so he came back handed so that happened even in death contrasting with john brown his body was given to his wife but as cortez proceeded north he said he was followed by thousandss and was considered quite the hero his burial was ceremonial but that was not

according to the african-american. >> what about those who escaped gallows? >> and to escape from harpers ferry they determined there was nothing more they could do but they did the harpers ferry and went to the mountains got almost to pennsylvania then at that point they split up eventually he went to his hometown in pennsylvania where he was captured and returned to harpers ferry and eventually executed but anderson managed to make it to i york there was a merchant there named goodrich who actually owned a railroad he managed to get him to where he

changed three times and he went to see his father and his father turned him away then he went up to northeastern ohio and went back to canada west where it was observed he appeared skeletal eventually moved to washington d.c. where he worked as a messenger and contracted tuberculosis and died in 1872 at the age of 42 penniless. unknown and unrecognized in his own city until his death said there was quite a funeral at the presbyterian church of pallbearers included the sun and then out wound up at the cemetery over here by then

though -- lambeau field. >> and they said that they disappear julia in the fight for freedom, once the war was over, there was no historical moment anymore. so then the question is, how did julia carry on? did she lose hope about race relations? reconstruction? >> what she saw it was not she worked for the freedom bureau after the war and started to see the money and compassion were drying up with that feeling we have done what we can so move on. she became involved in suffrage with women who tried to register to vote in 1869 and then she worked for a

government worker working at the patent office but her political stuff became more suffrage but she lived her life in the way that she retained relationships with black women the rest of her life harriet jacobs that she first connected with in alexandria moved out of the area and the fact 77 and remained friends the rest of their lives. she could live way that she wanted to. maybe she has not expected to. >> but essentially not much more in terms of helping slaves. >> more individuals and families but not a fixed political movement. >> she was in d.c. not in virginia?

>> she would come back to visit there was a slave pen is actually standing it is now a museum but it was used as a slave trading place before the war and at one point she talked about going back after the war a woman was blazed and gave her a relic from the place and she writes how ironic a former slave is taking up double of the slave trade with a historic irony that she lives out. >> she feels pretty good she held onto that relic. >> that was momentous. >> we talked about this earlier but there was a song

and a story about john brown but the fight for freedom now getting to the point where we are recovering so what is the purpose of recovering that history? have we that apply to today? to make it is so important to know history and the impact it continues to have on thisim today. i could talk to descendents with the park service with a sesquicentennial in 1959 it was really a whitewash with those that were taken by the park service. >> there was a large number of african-americans living in harpers ferry at that time.

>> the college founded 1867 for the education of former slave people was part of harpers ferry over decades after the integration of the supreme court so by 1959 and 2009 a different situation the park service had changed they elected the first african-american president the park service rangers reached out and they gave me a list of descendents and contact information those that can help with history and the aftermath and the stories they had on their lives and those's

parents in d.c. moved on and the past. but not until he was 45 he found out he was a descendent and then spent the last 25 years answering the existential questions who am i? and he shared research with me and brings it all together. we are still living this history and until we not only acknowledge honor our history will never get past it so i think that is why it is so important to know the story. >> i think you're right. julia, did you think off it as recovering history? >> i did i also titled the book a civil right at the

onset of all times at that shows what she was trying to do to lead a simple life during this period but as i worked on the block i would think about what she would be doing t today or how she would try to lead a simple life and a view it asas a challenge to me personally i hope people think the same how could somebody who is not famous or important or have power or well figure out what they could do to make difference? >> there are always things we can do to make a difference. maybe i thought it was time to open up for questions. >> we need the microphone.

sorry. >> a question for both of you. looking at these original documents, the manuscripts that julia wrote, were you amazed at how eloquent they wrote in the 19th century? >> i was amazed first of all at the penmanship was pretty good and one of the things that i loved there was humor, sarcasm, ups and downs i would be going through pages i was just transformed into her world and that was a treat.

>> there was a presumption by some people that during this period african-americans whether enslaved or free couldhe not write. one person asked me about correspondence with his wife harriet how could he white just right his responses? i thought that was a racist view but i wasn't at all surprised the pros that i read those letters were beautiful ands well written and to indicate obviously an educated person but i was not surprised think it is important to see these people ini full. not as poor uneducated black

people. >> i was as impressed by reading anybody during that period. >> but these are people who had a taste of freedom and understood what the lack of freedom meant there were powerful emotional qualities and urgency to their writing. >> when he was the employee in north carolina had private tutors. there is also schools for persons of color and he attended those as well. these were not unsophisticated people. green was not educated and anderson even in his book really doesn't make fun of his

speech or the fact that the words are jumbled like you mentioned green as saying i believe i will go with the old man to me that is more powerful and eloquent van a long letter. >> it is interesting because should we use dialect or cleaned it up but with douglas accounting in his autobiography he says i believe i will go with the old man maybe that is what he heard but if you do that now.in quotations you get into trouble that is just an aside. >> you have managed to unearth pieces of history that have been very and hidden for many

of us where did you find the richest pieces of resources and can you talk about the journey that those materials had to take to be preserved and protected until they found their way into your hands? >> we need another hour. >> so focus first on the diaries them for 50 years they were in her family and fortunately for us one of her great great nephews was a professor at the college and donated the diaries knowing they would be important beyond the family kind -- confines sure she didn't think she was writing for posterity and

discussed on a rainy day but yes. so you find little pieces here and there so in the archives like a group of papers than other not stuff it was just keeping your eyes open not knowing what will come. >> one of the first resources i use for the executive papers at the library of virginia on microfilm had to spend days reading them not just newspapers but actual photocopies of the letters they wrote from jail some of which were marked sensor that indicates they did not get out.

there also these moments when you are doing this research and i discovered another writer had said the copeland family from new columbus indiana but really it was ohio. the giveaway was leading a farmer named bennett so i went to the census records there was a ditty in indiana but there was an ohio that was also right on the river and mentioned listening to a preacher that night he was also at that town in ohio so i will correct the record so many references have been to john copeland junior but his father had the middle initial c so little things like that but i was fortunate to have

families provide information to me and i mentioned the incentives there was a lot of working of the census records for newspaper archives and tying the threads together was a great challenge and a great journey and going to places and ontario and population 162 it was a great journey that continues but it was essential that i was able to be a part of it. >> thank you so much. don't be shy about buying their books. thank you very much for being here. have a great day.